Do Something More

54. Janelle Christensen with 'Family Haven' and Working to Prevent and Treat Child Abuse by Providing Support and Healing to Families

April 09, 2024 Melissa Draper
54. Janelle Christensen with 'Family Haven' and Working to Prevent and Treat Child Abuse by Providing Support and Healing to Families
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Do Something More
54. Janelle Christensen with 'Family Haven' and Working to Prevent and Treat Child Abuse by Providing Support and Healing to Families
Apr 09, 2024
Melissa Draper

Janelle Christensen has been involved with Family Haven in a myriad of ways for almost 15 years and right now she serves as the Director. On this episode of the podcast she shares how Family Haven fulfills its primary purpose of preventing and treating child abuse.

What impressed me in this interview is Family Haven truly believes in coming at this sensitive issue from all sides. First by empowering families and giving them the tools they need to be healthy and succeed, through things like parenting classes and providing child care that parents can access for any reason. They also provide therapy and treatment so those who have experienced abuse or families trying to break generational cycles can find the hope and healing they need.

The powerful message I took away from this interview is that no family or child needs to walk the road of life alone. Whether it’s getting help and support for the current season you’re in, or finding healing from past experiences, there is help and hope to be found and it is places like Family Haven that work hard to provide that for their community.

Links mentioned in the show:
Family Haven Website
Family Haven Instagram
Family Haven Facebook

UtahFamilies.org-find Family Support Centers across Utah
National Family Support Network

Follow the podcast on social media:
Do Something More Instagram
Do Something More Facebook
Do Something More YouTube





Show Notes Transcript

Janelle Christensen has been involved with Family Haven in a myriad of ways for almost 15 years and right now she serves as the Director. On this episode of the podcast she shares how Family Haven fulfills its primary purpose of preventing and treating child abuse.

What impressed me in this interview is Family Haven truly believes in coming at this sensitive issue from all sides. First by empowering families and giving them the tools they need to be healthy and succeed, through things like parenting classes and providing child care that parents can access for any reason. They also provide therapy and treatment so those who have experienced abuse or families trying to break generational cycles can find the hope and healing they need.

The powerful message I took away from this interview is that no family or child needs to walk the road of life alone. Whether it’s getting help and support for the current season you’re in, or finding healing from past experiences, there is help and hope to be found and it is places like Family Haven that work hard to provide that for their community.

Links mentioned in the show:
Family Haven Website
Family Haven Instagram
Family Haven Facebook

UtahFamilies.org-find Family Support Centers across Utah
National Family Support Network

Follow the podcast on social media:
Do Something More Instagram
Do Something More Facebook
Do Something More YouTube





Melissa: Janelle Christensen has been involved with family Haven in a myriad of ways for almost 15 years. Right now, she serves as the director, and on this episode of the podcast, she shares how family haven fulfills its primary purpose, which is to prevent and treat child abuse. What impressed me so much as I learned more about family Haven in this interview is they truly believe in coming at this sensitive issue from all sides. First, by empowering families and giving them the tools they need to be healthy and succeed through things like parenting classes and providing childcare that parents might need for any reason. They, of course, also provide therapy and treatment so those who have experienced abuse or families trying to break generational cycles can find the hope and healing they need. The powerful message I took away from this interview is that no family or child needs to walk the road of life away alone. Whether it's getting help and support for the current season you are in or finding healing from past experiences, there is help and hope to be found. And it is places like family Haven that work hard to provide that for their community. Welcome to the Do Something More podcast, a service oriented show where we highlight the helpers who inspire us all to do something more. I'm your host, Melissa Draper. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome again to this episode of the podcast. I am looking forward to learning about this organization here in Utah county called Family Haven. They support families and families in crisis, or really just any family to cope with life's pressures. And they have a lot of great services, a lot of good things they're doing. And today I have on the podcast with me Janelle Christensen, who is the director of family Haven.

Janelle: Melissa, it is such an honor to be here and to be able to talk about family Haven with you. Yes.

Melissa: So as we were talking about earlier, you have an impressive history with family Haven. You've been involved for quite a while, doing lots of different things. So I'd just love to hear a little bit about that and also just let us know the overall mission and purpose of family haven.

Janelle: Well, I feel really fortunate to have been able to be involved with this amazing organization for as long as I have and in kind of a winding path. Like you said, over the last almost 15 years now, I started out as a volunteer with them in one of their foundation programs called the Crisis respite nursery, and then ended up just being involved in lots of the different programs for preventing child abuse before going to get my master's degree in 2016 and then returned as the director in 2018. So this July will be six years that I've been the director of the agency, and I just wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Honestly, the. The mission, the purpose, the heart of this agency is so unique, and honestly, is kind of magic to be a part of. The mission of family Haven is prevention and treatment of child abuse and family trauma. We like to say that we're hoping to build a community of happy, healthy individuals and families, and we do that through prevention and treatment. The programs are wide and varied, and like you said, so I'm happy to kind of talk through individual aspects of programs. And anything that we do, really, like you said, is just to support kids, to support families, to try to help people build healthy relationships and find resilience after going through tough things, or to continue coping with the ongoing pressures of life that maybe aren't necessarily a crisis moment, but just life's hard for anyone and everyone. And everybody needs some support sometimes.

Melissa: Absolutely, yes. I love that idea of wanting to help children through the prevention aspect, too, by supporting their families. Cause I think anyone that's been a parent understands what that means. We've all had moments where we need that support, that help, and even the ability to build our skills as well.

Janelle: I love that, too. I think that as long as there are people who need our help, we'll be there on the treatment side of things. We have a fantastic clinical team that can work with people to find hope and healing. And at the same time, we always say we'd love to work ourselves out of a job. We'd love to put so much effort into prevention and supporting people initially that we don't have as many people that need the support on the treatment side of things, because we know that prevention is less costly than treatment, and it saves people from having to go through those. Those really rough experiences that can lead to other negative outcomes in their life. And so the more effort, the more funding, the more time we can put into prevention, I think the better for not only our clients, but even for our entire community or society.

Melissa: And I think it's a great idea to approach both sides of a given issue like that, as sensitive as this one is as well. So.

Janelle: And we've been fortunate to be able to grow and expand that way. I mean, family haven this year is actually celebrating our 40th anniversary, which is pretty cool. We were founded in 1984 and really started only with the crisis respite nursery. We were founded with that prevention purpose and ended up, over the next couple of years, merging with another organization that was doing treatment because we felt like that wrap around that ability to support families from all angles would really align with the mission that the organization had originally. And then, as we've been able to identify additional needs within the community and funding sources for programs, we've been able to add additional components like parenting classes or prevention education in schools, to be able to. To support every member of the family in taking care of themselves, in adding tools to their tool belt, and having skills to be able to really contribute to a thriving family system as a whole.

Melissa: Well, you've been mentioning some of your services that you provide, so do you want to go into some of those just in a little more in depth what exactly each of your services are and how you go about providing those?

Janelle: The heart of the agency and that foundational program, like I said that we started with 40 years ago, is called a crisis respite nursery, and it is a really unique program, but evidence based and growing. I think throughout the state and the nation, there is definitely more recognition that prevention is important and additional funding being allocated at many different levels for that. So I think we'll see this program continue to grow in other areas. But a crisis risk nurse grocery is a place where any parent can receive help in times of crisis. If they have children zero through eleven, if they are having a medical emergency or a mental health emergency, maybe they feel like they're not the safest person to be caring for their child, right? Then they can call and within 30 minutes, 24/7 we will have someone available to take their kids while they go take care of themselves or what they need to do to be able to care for their family. I've had parents utilize that in mental health crises, parents who walk in and say, I just can't do this anymore and I need some help. I've also had a single mom whose baby swallowed some pills, and she needed to be with the baby under observation at the hospital for like the next 36 to 48 hours. And she had no idea where her older children were going to be. She didn't have anybody local that she felt comfortable with them being overnight, you know, and so they were able to come and stay with us. So we are definitely a safety net in situations where families find themselves in a really, really hard spot.

Melissa: Yeah. Wow, that is an impressive program. And as I said, that was the one that really touched me as I learned about your organization. Just as being a mom myself, a mom to young kids and experiencing some of those life's ups and downs, I've thought many, often times myself how something like that is so crucial for mothers to be able and fathers and any parent or caregiver to be able to have a place you can go when you need to either get that break or like you said, those emergency situations when you need just help with your.

Janelle: Yeah, exactly. And I love that you mentioned the breaks because what I talked about really is just one aspect of that program that's to just the 24/7 crisis. But we have regular business hours Monday through Friday that parents can schedule time in advance to be able to take care of other things that they need or that their family needs. If they are going to the doctor, the dentist, we have families who are going through court situations and have court dates, job interviewing or training their own therapy, all of those things. Childcare is kind of a barrier to accessing, and we see parents neglecting their own health or care sometimes because they don't have access to safe, reliable childcare. And being able to provide that care for free for their children allows them to take care of themselves or take care of other children. You know, they might have one child that's medically fragile and need care for their other children while they're doing appointments, things like that. We can provide care for all of those things. And finally, a three hour break once a week that is intended for prevention, for parents to be able to take a little bit of time and take care of themselves as a person so that they then can take better care of their kids as a parent. And we know that if we can lower the stress a parent is experiencing, it lowers the chance that they will end up in crisis, you know, or that abuse or something difficult might occur in that home. So we really do try to encourage parents to take advantage of that three hour window where they're not necessarily trying to get something done or going to an appointment, but take a nap, go on a date, or just something that's going to fill up their cup.

Melissa: Yes. And as a mother with young children who experienced mental health challenges myself, I was blessed enough to have a husband that could arrange his schedule to watch small children while I went to those appointments. But I love that idea that something like that is available for those that need to go through that and get those services.

Janelle: Yeah, I happy to share, like, that's something that has definitely blessed my family's life. I had two little babies, a one year old and a six month old when I started as director at family Haven. And then in my first year, I actually had a third. So we had a two year old, a one year old, and a newborn. With my husband being a stay at home father and me working full time and those three hour windows where he could have the babies in someone else's care, I think made a huge difference in his mental health and in our home. And I actually love one of our clients shared with us kind of perfectly what we would hope this provides to all families. And she came to us when her husband had received a terminal cancer diagnosis. And so she had these four young boys, and at least two of which had some more difficult diagnoses and behavioral challenges. And she was looking at going back to school to provide for her family, knowing that her husband could pass away soon from this illness. And so her boys would come and she would use it for things like studying for tests or taking a break. And after a little bit of time, I want to say six months to a year of using the nursery, she brought us this adorable note that one of her boys had drawn and written of them at family Haven, and her kind of off to the side and at the top he wrote, we got this, mom, you can take a break. And then at the bottom wrote, family haven means I love you. And, oh, yeah. And every time I tell that story, I get choked up, because I remember her face bringing that to us and telling us that when she started coming to the nursery, she felt like she was drowning and that she was just hoping anybody would take her kids and give her a break from this chaos that was her life. And she just expected it to be a three hour break from the chaos. But she said, because I got a three hour break, I was different. I couldn't help but parent differently. And when I parented differently, my kids couldn't help but behave differently. And so rather than being this three hour break from our chaos, it transformed the chaos. And you gave us a peace and a calm in our home that we've never had before. So I still do use the nursery, but I don't feel like I'm drowning anymore. I just try to maintain and make sure that we don't get back to that place. And, man, if that just isn't exactly why that program exists. It meant so much to know that it was a tool for their family. And she does still use the nursery. Her husband has passed away. She is providing for her four boys as a single mom and uses that as time for caring for the boys in appointments and things, like I said. But also to make sure that she is able to take some time for herself now as a single parent.

Melissa: Wow, that is so empowering, too. I think many times, especially as women, we just think we have to do it all right, got a power through and just deal with it. And to have that empowering idea that, no, you. That sense of community, and we can use each other and you can get support and help, especially in those hard times that you navigate. But really, anytime, nobody needs to do something special to earn that support.

Janelle: I'm so glad you said that because I think that is one of the biggest things that I would just shout from the rooftops if I could. You know, that every parent needs help. Like, we were not meant to do it alone. We were meant to have support and to work together. There's a reason there's so many cliche sayings about it. Taking a village, you know, because it's. It's so true. And I think more than anything else, I see that in parents who think, oh, no. Like, I don't. I don't want to get help because that's like admitting I'm a bad parent when really getting help, utilizing resources available to you, providing the best possible circumstances for your family, that is being a good parent, that is taking care of your family in a healthy and positive way. And so we definitely want that to change. For people to feel like it's a good thing to get help, it does not make you a bad parent. It makes you human. Yep.

Melissa: Makes you a good parent. To realize there's so many good resources out there to support you 100%, that's great. Well, that program alone, I'm just like, let's shout this from the rooftops. That's amazing. But you have other programs as well that help you fulfill your mission. What are some.

Janelle: We do. So that definitely is more of the respite side of things. Right. To be able to prevent through caring for kids and parents. But we also try to prevent with education and skill building. There's lots of aspects of abuse or trauma that can be cyclical.

Melissa: Right.

Janelle: And repeat and be generational, because a lot of times you don't know what you don't know. And so to give people that awareness and that option to do something differently than maybe how they were raised or their home of origin is some of our. Our biggest intentions and purpose of these programs. So we do work with both parents and kids. For parents, that looks like parenting classes, and we have several formats that. That can. That can take. One would be a group class that is held on site several times a year. That is one position that I held at the agency before and just loved. I think it is so, so transformative for parents to be able to go through this class and the group setting is so cool because you get peer support and commiseration and advice from each other. We've seen groups really bond closely and stay friends after the class, but then also one on one for families maybe, that have a little more complicated situation, and they want to be able to have more focused attention on their specifics. We can meet in home, in person, at their home. We can also do on site, in an office, at our facility, and virtual. That was one benefit of the pandemic. We'd never tried that before, but definitely found that for some people's schedules and availability, virtual made this program accessible for them. So we kept that aspect. And I love this class because I think sometimes as parents, we think, I need to fix this about my child, or if my child would change this aspect of their behavior, it would make things easier for me or improve our life as a family, and we would have parents kind of come in with this. This approach. Right. Give me some tools to fix my child. And for the first five weeks, we pretty much only focused on their relationship and love. We talked about, yeah, we talk about play and praising and routines and how to validate emotions. And I think sometimes there'd be some frustration about that because they wanted different kinds of tools, and then they would oftentimes come back a few weeks in and say, whoa, this is working. This is changing my child's behavior. Not necessarily behavior management skills or consequences or anything like that, but that focusing on a more positive relationship and building that love was managing behavior more than those other tools. And obviously that does still come into play. And we would get to that and talk about effective commands or appropriate consequences for misbehavior and things like that. But primarily similar to what our nursery client shared, that if parents can learn skills and tools and change themselves or manage their own behavior and emotion, oftentimes that is a lot of what is needed for kids to be able to manage their emotions better, too. So I have such a soft spot in my heart for that class and that curriculum. I think it changes lives. And one of my favorite testimonials for that was actually a group setting where I was teaching moms who were going through the court system for substance abuse in order to either regain custody of their children or keep custody. And very skeptical at the beginning, right? Very hesitant, as we would try to build those relationships and share this knowledge. And I had one mom at the end tell me, you know, this was so powerful, they should require you to prove you've taken this class before you can request your. Your child's birth certificate. And I laughed just like you. I'm like, well, that's a, that is a well intentioned idea. I'm not sure that will ever happen. But just showing how powerful that transformation was for her from going to, I don't need this, to thinking this is something every parent would benefit from.

Melissa: Right. And again, so empowering when you have those tools to help you as a parent in your decisions and journey with your kids. I was blessed to have a mom that she learned that and taught that to me. She always used the mantra, the behavior that gets attention is the behavior that gets repeated and basically a mantra again, like you said, to focus on the positive, good things your child is doing and the positive, good aspects of your relationship and how amazingly, doing that actually can help all the other things that you're worried about or wanting to nitpick.

Janelle: On that is in class. So that's a little sneak peek of the kinds of things that we would focus on. So, so true. It, it makes a huge difference when you're able to have different tools in your tool belt to respond to situations. And, and honestly, that's one aspect of the class too, is that parenting is not one size fits all, right? You as a parent are unique individual and each of the children you have are going to be unique individuals. And so it's never going to be easy. Right? I've had parents come, come back and say, I tried it, it was hard and, yep, it's, it is hard. It's not going to be easy, but it, it hopefully makes it easier and helps you to feel more equipped to handle some of those challenges than if you are just using a hammer for every single need you have around your house versus access a screwdriver and a saw and a wrench and finding the right tool for the situation or the job.

Melissa: Definitely. And those you mentioned, you do some for kind of court ordered situations, but are those ones also that anyone can sign up to do?

Janelle: Yeah, absolutely. All of our prevention programs are free and have no eligibility requirements. So any family? Well, I guess for the nursery it would be having a child zero to eleven. But, you know, if you have a parent and a child in that age, age range, you would be able to use the services and then, same with the parenting classes. And that one, I'd say even less. You don't even have to be a parent. We've had college students in the area since we're right by two universities, show interest and say, you know, before I'm a parent, I want to come learn these skills we've had grandparents, so anybody can take that course, and it has no associated cost.

Melissa: Wow, that's great. And then one other service I wanted to have you cover is the therapy that you do is because, as you mentioned, you do also address that side of the situation and providing hope and healing to families. So do you want to just explain that?

Janelle: Do you want me to talk through our education for kids first, or. Yeah.

Melissa: So you do education to kids as well?

Janelle: Yeah, let's cover that. The skill building that we give to kids is really just to help them recognize and prevent their own abuse from happening. We know from research and statistics that oftentimes children are experiencing these things from people they know and trust and maybe even in their own home. And so giving them the tools and skills they need to recognize that in a school setting allows them to recognize what has been happening and to give them permission to speak about it. Sometimes kids who are experiencing abuse just don't even know that. That's not what everyone's home is like and what every child is. They think that's. That's what every child is experiencing. And so we go in and we talk about what it is, what it looks like, what's okay, what's not, a safety plan for where to go for help if someone is experiencing these things. And oftentimes this leads to disclosures, which is obviously devastating. Right. We don't want anyone to be experiencing that. However, if they are, we want to give them the awareness and the permission to speak out about it. So one of the schools that we went to in provost school district told us that in a typical school year, she might make one or two phone calls to report a situation of child abuse in a school year. And that the week that we were there, each day presenting, she made at least one call every day. And so I think that that kind of shows the impact of that program to be able to get kids connected, to help, to get families connected to help, and to really raise awareness of what is okay and what's not and empower them to make those changes. And we continue to talk about that, actually in secondary schools, middle and high school. But we also add some other topics like dating, violence or depression and suicide prevention. Again, just teaching them what it is and what to do about it and where to get help for some of those things, because a lot of those are bigger issues than what maybe a 14 year old should be addressing themselves or with a friend. And so we talk through how to navigate in the moment, right. To help someone you might know is going through this, but then also how to escalate it and make sure that they get connected to a professional who can intervene in a way that they really need.

Melissa: It is sometimes unfortunate but good that we can give kids those tools that they need in our world.

Janelle: Absolutely. So is the last one. And I again, just think this program is incredible and so needed in all over, but definitely in our county, where we're the youngest county in the nation, and we have a lot of kids, which means we have a lot of families who might need this help. Our clinical team is LCSWS licensed clinical social workers who are trained in working with children and trained in working with trauma. They can start with kids as young as two years old, but all the way up through adults. And our facility is designed and equipped to allow them to work with this population in a way that is the most comfortable for them as well. We know that kids natural language is play, and so we have four play therapy rooms, an art room, and a sand tray room so that they can go in this space and process what has happened to them in a way that's natural and comfortable and find that hope and that resilience after the fact. And then we also, like I said, work with adults as well in several different modalities, TFCBT, EMDR, and focus on helping them to find hope and healing healthy relationships to really change the trajectory of not only their life, but potentially generations after them, because they are able to find that healing and change potential associated outcomes that can follow experiencing trauma.

Melissa: Yes, in my experience, a good therapist can help you take accountability and then also give you the tools to move forward.

Janelle: Yes, absolutely. That program is our only fee for service, but we do have a lot of options for people who maybe don't have a funding source to try to make sure that inability to pay is never a reason why someone wouldn't receive care. We work with local government entities and grants. We have foundations and corporations so that we can create, we kind of call them a funding cocktail to be able to leverage any funding source that you might qualify for and the maximum number of sessions allowable in that funding source to create a comprehensive care plan and hopefully get people again back on their feet. And that program has just endless success stories. It is so powerful to hear from kids themselves who have found hope and healing, who have gained skills, and from parents who say, this program changed our lives, saved our family, my child is forever changed. And being able to support kids through really hard situations where maybe they're having to go to court and testify against an abuser or be in a new home in a totally new situation. We, I remember, served one child who had grown up in a very severely neglectful home and ended up in several foster homes before coming to us with a lot of high needs. Right. And in the six months that he was working with a therapist at family Haven, he grew six inches because he had found safety and security in the new foster home he was at and was able to do that work with a therapist. And his body responded to that as well. Where he had not, he was physically behind and developmentally delayed and was able to see that change in growth, physically as well as emotionally.

Melissa: Yeah, I can imagine it might be heartbreaking to see some of the situations these kids come from, but then, as you said, to see their resilience and to see them find hope and healing must be good as well to be able to see the other side of that.

Janelle: We have a couple therapists who say when people ask them, how can you do this? That their answer is, how could I not? That when you see these situations, the children that need help and their potential for change, it truly is incredible, the resilience that children have. On average, adults in therapy will spend around five years resolving trauma or issues from the past, and children between 14 and 16 sessions. So between five or six months. Right. And that juxtaposition, recognizing that the earlier we can intervene, the better off they will be, both in terms of that specific trauma and outcomes for continuing on in their life, is also just so motivating and powerful to say, let's get them access to treatment as quickly as we possibly can. Yeah.

Melissa: That just highlights all your other programs, how important they are, how it all really does fit together like a good puzzle. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to kind of walk us through all the things that family haven does, those services that you provide. I always love to end each show with, just because we have listeners from all over with just general advice that you would give to anyone wanting to support or volunteer in this way to help families or how they might be able to find family support centers in their area, and then also let us know for those that are local how they can get involved.

Janelle: Sure. Thank you for that. I think that one of the best ways to be able to serve children and families is to know the children and families in your area. I think that there is kind of a. A loneliness epidemic that even the surgeon general has talked about that's happening in our nation right now, and to be able to know the names of kids on your street and say hi to them when they're out riding their bike. We know that resilience, the biggest protective factor or resilience factor for kids is one caring adult in their life who they felt like cared about them or believed in them. And so if you can be a caring adult for a child, you may never know the positive impact that that has on them and the difference that it made for what their other life circumstances were at the time. And so that's one thing that I think just anybody can do. But then, specifically in Utah, we are part of an association of family support centers across the state. So there are ten other directors like me with their own centers and 17 locations actually. And so you think about go to Utah families.org and find your nearest family support center anywhere across Utah. And then across the nation, there is a network of family strengthening. And that is probably the best way to try to get connected, the national Family Strengthening Network. And they could potentially direct you to either a family support center or some other state's them family resource centers that would also have programs either like ours or similar in some ways throughout the country. And if you want to get involved specifically with family Haven, we would love that. We cannot do what we do without community support, whether that is in kind. Donations, on site volunteering, off site volunteering, financial support. We love working with individuals or groups or companies all the time. You can go to our website, family dash haven.org, and then there's a tab at the top for getting involved, for either donating or volunteering that can give you information of who to contact or lists of current needs that we have. That we would love to have the community involved in accomplishing our mission and serving local kids and families that are their neighbors and kids in their kids class at school and things like that.

Melissa: That's great. I will put links to all of those in the show notes so anyone can go find and learn more about you and what you do. Thank you so much, Janelle, for taking the time to come on today. I think this has been a really good conversation just about families in general, but also about the good work you do to support families and this goal of preventing and treating child abuse. So thank you for what you do.

Janelle: Melissa. I love that this is a platform to be able to give people that information and connection to resources. Like I said at the beginning, it is just one of the greatest privileges of my life to be involved in family haven, and it has changed me for the better in more ways than I can count. So thank you for the opportunity to talk about that today.

Melissa: That concludes my interview with Janelle Christensen, the director of Family Haven here in Utah county. And we covered so many different areas in that interview as we talked about the help, support and healing they give to families to prevent and treat child abuse. First of all, she talked about that amazing nursery, that childcare that they provide. That alone, I think is an incredible service. They're providing the community to help parents get the help and support that they need. And I loved how we discussed that anyone can ask for help, any parent can get that help and support. You don't need to be somehow specially deserving of that. And that that childcare, that nursery is a huge asset to the community that they provide. She also talked about those classes that they do, the education that they do in schools, and then of course, the therapy and the treatment they provide for children and families that are needing to find the hope and the healing as they move forward and progress in life. Such a beautiful, beautiful service family haven provides for their community. I will leave a link in the show notes if you want to learn more about them. Or I will also leave some of those other links she mentioned if you want to learn about the family support centers in your area, how you can maybe even utilize them or support them in the good work that they do. And also, just one other reminder. I know this is an issue and something that can affect families and people all over. So if as you listen to this episode, you thought of someone that might benefit from the good information that was shared here and the insights that were provided, please share this episode with them and let them hear and learn for themselves about the good things that organizations like family Haven are doing. Thank you so much for being here. I'll see you next time.

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