57. Melanie Rodger with 'Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep' and Providing Remembrance Portraits to Parents Experiencing the Death of a Baby

Melanie Rodger lost her first son just 32 hours after his birth when she was 20 years old. That loss prompted her to want to seek community and not feel alone as she navigated the grieving process. During that time, she learned about 'Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep', a nonprofit that provides remembrance portraits to parents experiencing the death of a baby. Melanie had known she wanted to be a part of other families' stories in a way that others had been there for her, and when she was ready she started volunteering for 'Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep'.

She has served as a dispatcher to help find photographers for families, as a photographer herself, and now also works for 'Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep'. This episode is definitely a tender one as Melanie shares her own experience of losing her baby boy, and what it’s like being a photographer for others experiencing their own losses. She talks about the especially vital role their organization played during the pandemic, providing many family members with the only way they were able to see and remember these babies through the pictures they took.  She shares how it’s an honor to be invited into these spaces with families and I appreciated the beautiful advice she gave at the end saying that ‘you should never let the fear of emotion stop you from helping and being part of somebody else’s story.’

Links mentioned in the episode:
Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep Website
Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep Instagram
Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep Facebook

Follow the podcast on social media:
Do Something More Instagram
Do Something More Facebook
Do Something More YouTube

Transcript

Melissa: Melanie Roger lost her first son just 32 hours after his birth when she was 20 years old. That loss prompted her to want to seek community, not feel alone. As she navigated the grieving process during that time, she learned about now I lay me down to sleep, a non profit that provides remembrance portraits to parents experiencing the death of a baby. Melanie had known she wanted to be a part of other family stories in a way that others had been there for her, and when she was ready, she started volunteering for now I lay me down to sleep. She has served as a dispatcher to help find photographers for families, as a photographer herself and now also works for now I lay me down to sleep this episode is definitely a tender one as Melanie shares her own experience of losing her baby boy and what it's like being a photographer for others experiencing their own losses. She talks about the especially vital role their organization played during the pandemic, providing many families with the only way they were able to see and remember these babies through the pictures they took. She shares how it's an honor to be invited into these spaces with families, and I especially appreciated the beautiful advice she gave at the end, saying that you should never let the fear of emotion stop you from helping and being part of somebody else's story. Welcome to the Do Something more podcast, a service oriented show where we highlight the helpers who inspire us all to do something more. I'm your host, Melissa Draper. Thank you so much for being here.

Melissa: Welcome to this episode of the podcast, and today we are featuring the organization. Now I lay me down to sleep, their nonprofit organization that offers portrait sessions to grieving parents who have lost a baby. And they do that as a gift to help them in that process, but also to honor the legacy of those precious babies. And so this, of course, is going to be a tender conversation, but I hope also an inspiring one to help anyone that may be navigating a similar loss or for those that want to serve and support those that they know and love who are grieving and going through that process. But today on the podcast, I've invited Melanie Roger as our guest.

Melissa: She works with.

Melissa: Now I lay me down to sleep. And she's also volunteered, and it was the loss of her own baby son that led to her to want to volunteer at that organization, and we get to hear more about her story and her experiences today. So, Melannie, welcome to the podcast.

Melanie: Thank you for having me.

Melissa: Well, let's just start off a little bit. I would love you to start with your own story of going through that process and that loss and how that has led you into what you do now, the work that you do with now. I lay me down to sleep.

Melanie: Yeah. So I was pregnant in 2010. I found out that I unexpectedly was going to have a baby, and I was just 19 at the time. So it's kind of, like, earth shattering. I'm like, oh, my gosh, my whole life is changing. And I, you know, even in that felt invincible and felt like nothing could go wrong. And, you know, I'd read stories online and think, oh, that would never happen to me. You know, I'm young, I'm healthy. You just didn't. You didn't hear about those things happening in my. In my world outside of, you know, being a lost parent. And so when I. Yeah. Was pregnant, I had a really healthy pregnancy. I didn't have any, you know, like, alarms or red flags that came up until about 35 weeks. So 35 weeks into my pregnancy, I had a doctor. I kind of had, like, a clinic. And so I would rotate ob gyns that I saw, and I just so happened to see a different one at 35 weeks than I had been seeing previously. And they were not alarmed, but we're like, something maybe a little bit different. You're measuring smaller than where you should be at 35 weeks. But my husband, at the time, he and I both were smaller babies, and I have a longer torso, so I just kind of figured maybe it's just the way that I'm carrying. That's what the doctor that I had previously seen had been telling me. So at that 35 week appointment is when they were kind of like, let's just keep an eye on you. Let's just keep seeing what happens. So then, at 37 weeks, I ended up being diagnosed with a condition called intrauterine growth restriction, which essentially just means baby is restricted on their growth. The placenta is kind of like, hey, I'm done. And typically, what ends up happening is, baby is just born early. They may have a NICU stay to help with their lung development, and you don't really hear a ton of horror stories when a diagnosis is caught in that situation. So my mindset just shifted really quickly to, okay, we're gonna deal with a Nic use day. We have to make sure that his lungs are developed. Not a huge deal. The only, like, kind of tricky thing is that we were stationed in a small military base in Japan. So being, you know, 20 years old, by the time this came around, we both were just kind of like, oh, okay. Like, we're facing some really big challenges. By ourselves. We didn't have, you know, support family nearby or anything. So he was born just after 37 weeks. I had a very long induction. Again, doctors were really reassuring of, we're just going to need some time in the hospital. It's just going to be like a nICu stay. The hospital that he was born at didn't have a NICU, so they had assumed he'd be fine just on the oxygen they could provide and the steroids that they could give him. Quickly after he was born, they started to realize that it was more severe than that and that they did not have adequate equipment to help him. They ended up life flighting in a crew from a different military base in Japan. And after 32 hours, he passed away. It was very abrupt, very unexpected. We went from, like, planning, you know, this extended hospital stay to him dying. And, yeah, it was. It was tough. It was really challenging. Felt really alone and just really isolated and really didn't have an answer as to what had happened and why. You know, like, why we went from expecting to be in the hospital to him just being gone. So I got online when I got home and, you know, just searched for anything and everything that could make sense of what was happening, and I just wanted to not feel alone. I ended up finding a different. A few different kind of online communities and just reaching out to people who were of a similar age and had lost a baby. I came across. Now I lay me down to sleep at the time of that Google search, and I was like, oh, my gosh, like, this is incredible. I wish that someone would have advocated for me to take pictures. After he passed, we were in the hospital and a nurse came in and asked if I wanted to hold him, which I hadn't held him while he was alive. He was alive for 32 hours. And that entire time he had been with the nurses and doctors who were helping him. And I had always assumed, you know, I'll hold him when we're going home. Of course, yeah, I didn't take that time, and I wish I would have pushed for that, but I didn't, didn't know any better. And then when that nurse asked that question, my gut reaction was, no, I didn't hold him while he was alive. I don't want to hold him now that he's dead. You know, it felt odd, it felt morbid. It just wasn't something that I understood. I'm grateful to this day that my best friend was sitting in that room with us, and she looked at the nurse and she said, go get that baby. She's going to hold him. And the nurse that brought him in, she actually had lost a baby herself. And, you know, she's like, you don't have to hold him for long, but even if you just hold him for a minute, you know, this is a. You don't get this. You'll never get this opportunity again. And so I held him for, like, five minutes. It was really hard and obviously very, very sad. Yeah. I didn't know what to do. And I felt so grateful in hindsight that I had people in the room who really advocated for me that day and pushed me outside of my comfort zone. Cause I would have lived with regret forever. Yeah. After years of navigating being a parent without their baby, living and going through a divorce and moving to Seattle and really just starting my life as a 20 year old and kind of backtracking and having these life experiences and just navigating a new way of life, I moved to Seattle in 2012. I met this amazing community of parents who've lost children through a support group, and they kind of, like, took me under their wing, and I got to, like, you know, love them and watch them have children and be auntie to, you know, all these new babies. And it wasn't until the end of 2014 I met my husband now, and we went on to get married in late 2015. And then I got pregnant with my rainbow baby, which, for anyone who doesn't know what that is, a baby born after a loss, pregnant with him in 2017, and he was born in February of 2018. Holding him and seeing him and having that experience of having a living baby that I actually got to take home is really what brought me back to that moment of leaving the hospital without my first son and those people that were in the room at that time and who were advocating for me that I really felt called to give back and to be a part of other people's stories in a way that those people had been for me, I can't.

Melissa: Imagine having to go through that is a lot to go through at such a young age, so many tender experiences.

Melanie: Yes, I grew up very quickly, I'm sure.

Melissa: And then, as you said, then you had that experience later to realize, hey, I think even whether you're young or not, that kind of experience is just, nobody prepares for that. We hear about. I think we all know, we all have friends or family members that have gone through losses, but nobody prepares you to go through that experience yourself. And as you kept saying that word, advocate, that is exactly what you need in those times as someone willing to advocate for you. So that's what you were going into. You can go ahead and continue with those.

Melanie: Yeah. So at the end of my second pregnancy, I had met a local mom who actually works for the organization, and it was like just the universe had put that in place at that time, because I had heard of nyling me down to sleep. I'd known about them for eight years. I knew that it was something I felt called to be a part of, but I couldn't do it until I had my own child at home, and I had had that positive experience and knew that I could survive what had happened. So after my second son was born, I reached out to her, and I was like, what can I do? I have this new baby. I have been a photographer my entire life. I know that I could technically take these photos, but I wasn't sure how I would feel walking into that space. And, you know, as a lost parent, but then just as an empathetic person, and this is a common conversation that I have with people is like, I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if I could do that. And so I signed up to volunteer as an assistant. So I would go with Allie on sessions. Going, you know, going through this application process would allow me to go on sessions with Allie. And then I also signed up to be a dispatcher. So when the calls come in from the hospital, the dispatchers find a photographer, and I found just even being a part of that, the dispatching experience, I was still, like, being able to help families, because I, you know, I had this, like, gratification of, like, yes, I did it. I found a photographer who could go. I was around, I think my son was about eight weeks old. You know, the schedules aligned, and I was able to go assist Allie on the first session. It was a very unique situation. The family had already said goodbye to the baby by the time we got there, and we were in this really small, like, closet, and so we were in this really tight space, and the nurse brings the baby out, and it just wasn't what I had pictured the experience being. It wasn't what I had thought that I would have wanted. And I ended up leaving that experience questioning, like, oh, my gosh, is this something I can do?

Melissa: Yeah. What am I doing?

Melanie: What am I doing? I also then got diagnosed with postpartum anxiety, so it was clearly not the time in my life to be in those spaces. So I kind of took a step back from the assisting part for a while, maybe about a year, and I just kept dispatching and I found a lot of fulfillment out of that. And then, yeah, as I got, like, my mental health better and I felt more confident that nothing was going to happen to my living son, I started venturing out more with other photographers and assisting them on their sessions and then really worked up the confidence myself to just say, okay, I'm going to do this. I know how to be in the room. I have seen a variety of spaces. What I came to find out very quickly is that that first experience that I had, it's never happened again. I've never been in that situation again. And everyone is just so unique.

Melissa: Right. I'm so interested that you mentioned how that postpartum anxiety, because I think we'd be kindred spirits. I can definitely relate to that and that desire to serve and to want to help, but to realize that sometimes our emotions don't always allow us to do it in the complete way that we want and needing to respect that. But I think that's so great that you still found a way to serve through that until you could be in that healthy space to serve and to give a little more. So thank you for sharing that as well because I think a lot of people, and women especially, would relate to that. So that's how you got started volunteering was with the photography and taking the pictures?

Melanie: Yeah, well, I actually didn't start volunteering as a photographer until November of 2019. So I was involved for about a year and a half. So my son's 9th birthday would have been November of 2019. And I kind of give myself that goal post of, like, okay, like, give yourself, you know, enough time and enough different experiences to build that confidence to go out and actually do it. So, so excited to get approved for his 9th birthday. And then I went out on my first session by myself in January of 2020, and then fast forward, like, major pandemic. And, you know, I thought I would have this different experience, and instead it became so much more than I even thought it was going to be. We had incredible teams of nurses who really advocated for their families in that time. And it was May of 2020 that we started having an exemption to be allowed into some hospitals and being able to serve families in that way. So what I thought, like, signing up in 2019 as an. As a photographer was like, oh, I'll be able to go into this space and help families and advocate for them in ways that people advocated for me and just kind of normalize what we do and that it's okay to do this. It's okay to want these pictures. It's okay to touch your baby and hold your baby. It became so much more because I then became the only person who was meeting these babies. And, you know, I had experiences that first year of siblings never getting to meet these babies, but I was the one. And then my images became so much more than what I thought they were going to be because it became the only way that families ever got to know that these babies existed and they weren't allowed to see them in funeral homes. And all the complications that happened during that time, my photos are it for them. And that became so impactful and so, so much larger than I thought it would ever be.

Melissa: Right?

Melanie: Yeah.

Melissa: And I love that. That's part of the mission of now I lay me down to sleep isn't just for that grieving process as good as that is, but to create a legacy, to acknowledge the life and the loss of these babies and to have that forever for those families to have. And I think that really is a beautiful mission. And as you said, something like the pandemic really brought that into focus, how necessary that is.

Melanie: Yes. Yes. And we had been working on a program to help train nurses, and it had been work in the works for about a year, and then the pandemic hit, and it was like we were sitting in this space with this program that would help teach nurses how to take photos in a situation if a photographer wasn't available. And we were sitting there with that, and it was like, wait, we can reach these families still? We can reach them through providing this training to nurses. And so we fully launched our medical program. It was massive, and it took very quickly into the nursing world and was able to help families even more during that time because there was a resource that was available for them.

Melissa: Wow, that's huge. So that was actually using the nurses to help you take and document and do these. Some of the things.

Melanie: Yeah. So one of the things that is really important is that not every area has photographers. And that's part of why I'm excited to be here today and talk about and talk about that is that a lot of times people have maybe this idea that, oh, I live in a big city, so there's probably plenty of people who are already doing this and, you know, out there taking these photos, but that's. That's not the reality. We're always in need of volunteers, and the design behind the medical program is to kind of fill that gap. Maybe it's like a smaller rural area or even a big city, and somebody's schedule just doesn't align. So that was kind of the idea behind the medical affiliate program. Yeah. So we had it and, and just kind of put it out there to the world, and it's still something that is, is used. Our first choice is always going to be a volunteer photographer because they're skilled, they are providing a professional, quality image. They have the equipment and the knowledge to do that. And that's really what, what we want to provide to families is that that image that's going to last. A legacy. Right. It's not a cell phone image.

Melissa: Right.

Melanie: Original quality image.

Melissa: Well, I would just love to have you take us through the logistics a little bit for someone that's not as familiar. You kind of talked about it a little bit of being a dispatcher and a photographer, but just take a minute to take us kind of through that process if someone wants that service. And then what happens from there?

Melanie: Yeah. So typically in this situation, most of the time it's very unexpected. People go into the hospital and they're expecting to have a baby or expecting maybe to be put on bed rest or kind of deal with some complications. So if, let's say, a mom walks in to labor and delivery, finds out the baby no longer has a heartbeat, they'll get admitted to the hospital and start that process. The nurses themselves are our biggest advocates. They are the ones who are there in front of the family presenting them with this option. So if a family says yes or, you know, it's like, maybe I'd want to do that. The hospital will reach out to either a photographer directly or dispatch line. Just depends on the area and what's available, and then that dispatcher or the photographer individually will kind of look at their schedule and see kind of timing wise what works. For example, you know, I have a kindergartener. I work, you know, I have a busy life. My husband works outside of the home. And so for me, I typically can't go until like maybe 07:00 at night or after dinner or if it's during the day. I can sometimes make that work, too. So there's a lot of flexibility in how much, like, how quickly you get to the hospital. It's a really flexible position in that way. Unless the family is being discharged, you know, in a quick timeframe, they're typically there for 24 hours. We're not in a significant rush to get there before. There's no time window from birth to us having to be there.

Melissa: You have some time to navigate.

Melanie: Yes, yes. Which makes it really convenient from a volunteer perspective. And I also think it helps families also kind of have take a moment and take some time to kind of spend time with their baby. And from you having given birth and then having somebody walk in your room immediately after that can be a lot. So I think, you know, there's never any rush to get there right in that instant because of the quality of image we provide, we retouch all of our images to remove those signs of demise. Anything that wouldn't naturally be there from a live birthday gives us that opportunity to kind of cater to volunteer schedules and working individuals and that variety of people.

Melissa: And I saw you.

Melissa: They're always black and white as well.

Melanie: Yes. Yeah. We offer black and white retouched images, and a lot of our, you know, like when I walk into a room, I always introduce myself and I always tell mom or dad or, you know, now in the last couple of years, there's been more family members back in rooms, which has been really special. Or I'll have, like, grand Pa or somebody take out their cell phone and take pictures with me so that they have something immediately when they leave the hospital. And they also have that color version of those images as well.

Melissa: Right. And then does the photographer touch them all up or do you have other.

Melanie: Volunteers that do that? Yeah. So we do have digital retouch artists. They are like the most amazing, skilled, brilliant human beings. They have extensive Photoshop knowledge, and I have seen them just do the most amazing things for, for families. They are a resource to our photographers. We also have photographers who can do both. I personally am not that person. I wish, I wish I was that great at Photoshop, but I know not being that, that person who can do it, it's amazing to just have, like a, almost a counterpart, right, who can take the images that I take because I can physically get to the hospital and I can be there and I can send them over to somebody who can retouch them for me. And a lot of those retouch artists aren't people who go out to hospitals. So that is the way that they give back.

Melissa: Yeah.

Melanie: Yeah. And they have a lot of fulfillment in being able to do that.

Melissa: Such a beautiful way to use all of those.

Melanie: Your team, it's like so many different levels of people who are involved. You know, it's not just one person who goes out and does all of the work for these sessions. There's always a team behind, behind that. So it's really, it's a really, really special volunteer community. I tell people all the time who are photographers, this isn't like your regular photography club where it's like cutthroat and competitive. These are people who have the same heart and drive and selflessness and want to help each other give the best that they can to families. And so I constantly see conversations happening of like, favorite poses and the way that they were able to do that. And it's just a really collaborative and beautiful space.

Melissa: Yeah. Learning from each other with those experiences, too.

Melanie: Yeah. And supporting each other. I mean, there's definitely been times where I have been in the most heartbreaking scenarios ever. And we do have a community space where we can talk about those and support each other through that because this absolutely is emotional work. It is something I tell people has the most honor attached to it. I can't, you know, like, I wake up and I'm like, wow, I can't believe that, you know, I've had 75 different families who have allowed me to be in their space. That honor is so deep and it runs, you know, through everything that I do and I never forget any of them. And it's hard, though. There's definitely some, some really, really heartbreaking scenarios. You can watch a family who's tried to have a baby for twelve years and have IVF and they're 40 weeks pregnant and have a stillbirth and you see that and you see babies, you know, families who get an undiagnosed, an incompatible with life diagnosis and have to make, you know, really hard decisions. And, yeah, it's, it's a lot, but it's, it's so, so, so rewarding.

Melissa: Yes. As you said, that, such an honor to be invited into that sacred space. But that is the reality, is it is emotional work. And I'm sure that you have to make sure as a volunteer and someone who's serving to make sure you're realizing that reality as well.

Melanie: And, yeah, and I do tell people it's okay to have emotion. We do train our photographers that, you know, if you're overly having an emotional outburst to please, you know, obviously, please excuse yourself from the room. But I have definitely cried with families and they appreciate knowing that we're human beings who also care about what's happening to them. And so when I hear people say, oh, I'm too emotional, I wouldn't be able to do that. It's okay to have emotion. We don't expect you to be emotionless and not care and not have a heart. And we have a lot of support for our volunteers to be able to help them navigate the scenarios that, that they do encounter and be able to help them.

Melissa: Yeah, that's good. All supporting and working together towards a good cause. So. Well, as something I thought was interesting is you have some beautiful stories on your website. I'll put a link if anyone wants to go and read some of those stories. But something I thought was interesting, and you mentioned this in your own story as well, is many times parents or families aren't sure they want a picture or they're kind of hesitant to do that, or as you were hesitant to hold, and then they explain how they're so grateful that they did later.

Melanie: Yeah.

Melissa: So that seems to be like a common feeling, but then the gratitude for having that later is a common feeling as well.

Melanie: Yeah. Death is still very taboo as a conversation, and the death of a baby is even more taboo. There's a quote that talks about how if you lose a spouse, you're a widow, and you know the different names for different types of losses, but there is no name associated with a parent losing a child because that is how taboo it is to talk about. We don't want to talk about it. We don't want to see it. We don't want to know that that's a reality. But it is a reality, right? Over 20,000 stillbirths alone in the United States every year. And I can almost guarantee that everybody knows somebody who has been through the loss of a baby, a miscarriage, a stillbirth, passed away of sids, or there's a variety of different ways.

Melissa: Yeah, I think it is starting to be talked about a little more. Social media and other things have helped with that.

Melanie: Yes.

Melissa: But as you said, it can be still kind of an uncomfortable, you know, it's just, and I know sometimes just how to even express that loss or communicate what you're feeling can be, can be difficult as well. So, yeah, good to have these good organizations that are helping families and advocating and walking through that process. But I always love to include on the podcast just that encouragement for others to serve. And so the question I think I would ask you this time is, as you said, this is something that I think most of us, if we haven't walked through it ourselves, we've seen or know someone walking through it. And sometimes in those sensitive situations, we might feel hesitant or we don't always know what to say or what to do, even though we have the desire or a heart to serve and reach out to someone. So I would just love to have you share on your website. You have, again, some really great ideas for family and friends that want to serve and support someone going through a loss, but I would love to have you share some of your own ideas or encouragement. For anyone that's wanting to serve and support someone in their own way, that's navigating the loss of a baby.

Melanie: I tell people that the majority of families who have lost a baby don't want to pretend that it never happened. And I think one of the most important ways that you can support the people that you love is just by acknowledging that their baby existed. If you see somebody close to you who has lost a baby, put their baby's birthday in your calendar and just send that text message every year of, you know, like, happy birthday. I'm thinking of you. Parents didn't forget that that happened, and they're never going to forget that it happened, but they will notice who else remembers with them. And it's an easy way to just support the people that you love. Obviously, I will plug. You could volunteer with us, of course. Now we leave you down to sleep. I have helped grandmas who, yeah, have lost their grandchild become volunteers with us. I have had dads and moms and aunts and uncles and just a variety of. Of different people who have come to us and have wanted to give back because someone they love received services from us. But, yeah, the easiest way to just be there and support the people you love is just remember, like, don't be afraid to talk about it with them. Don't be afraid to use their baby's name and acknowledge that they existed, because they don't forget.

Melissa: And you are all over the nation.

Melanie: So, yes, we're all over the US and Canada, and then we also have a presence. We have a chapter in Ireland and in South Africa, but our predominant area is North America.

Melissa: That's great. It never gets old to acknowledge those losses. I know my own parents lost a baby at six days old, and my own daughter ended up being born on his birthday.

Melanie: Aw, that's really sweet.

Melissa: That's something I still acknowledge with my own mother. I mean, she's almost 80 years old, and I know that loss, it was still a real experience for her, but to celebrate it with her daughter and to realize there's still good and beauty to be found in the experience.

Melanie: Yeah. I remember having a conversation with my father in law after our son was born and explaining to him, like, what a rainbow baby was, because he was like, what is that? I don't understand what that is. And then my mother in law looked at him and was like, you're a rainbow baby. Remember, like, your, your older brother died just after birth. And she went on to share the story of how her mother in law never forgot him and never stopped talking about him until she passed away in her late eighties. And it was just really special to see like, that. That legacy is carried on through generations, all because she wasn't afraid to talk about it and she wasn't afraid to remember that and encourage people to remember him with her.

Melissa: Right. Even just sharing the story. And so, and so I want to thank you for sharing your story and experience there at the beginning, but also all these beautiful experiences that you've had as you've served with. Now I lay me down to sleep. Any final thoughts or things you wanted to share?

Melanie: No. I mean, other than don't let the fear of emotion stop you from being a part of somebody else's story. And for advocating for them, we would obviously love to have you volunteer with us. But just as a general statement, like don't be afraid, don't be afraid. Emotions, there's support for emotions, but these are once in a lifetime moments that people don't get to redo. So you can be that positive influence during that time.

Melissa: That is beautiful, Melanie. That is a whole nother podcast in and of itself.

Melanie: I love that.

Melissa: Don't be afraid to let those, your own emotions keep you from serving in very real and powerful ways. And I would add, sometimes helping someone else walk through the same heartache that you went through yourself can be a good healing process as well. So well, thank you so much, Melanie. I appreciate you taking your time to come on the podcast today and share your experiences. And again, I will leave links to the website so people can learn more about. Now I lay me down to sleep and how to get involved.

Melanie: Thank you for having me.

Melissa: That concludes my interview with Melanie Roger, who has volunteered as a photographer with now I lay me down to sleep and also works with their organization now as well. And she started off, of course, sharing her own tender story of losing her own baby boy and how the experiences that she had then are what eventually prompted her to want to volunteer and be part of other people's stories. In a way, she was so appreciative that many were there for her, and.

Melissa: She shared a lot of good things.

Melissa: To remember, even with the tender thoughts that were expressed.

Melissa: First, she talked about how she had.

Melissa: Struggled a little bit with postpartum anxiety after her second was born, and she realized that maybe that wasn't the time in her life to be in those spaces and she had to pause and take a break, just wait. Wait for the proper time and moment when she was ready to volunteer. And I really appreciated her saying that because I've experienced that myself. I know many others have as well.

Melissa: That we have that heart to serve.

Melissa: And we want to serve. But it is most definitely okay to realize that there are times and seasons for everything and to be patient with the process and know that those opportunities will eventually come.

Melissa: We'll be able to fulfill some of.

Melissa: Those desires that we have, as Melanie definitely did and experienced herself. And then she shared during that time with the pandemic how many times. She was the only one during that time that was allowed in to capture some of those photos. And for many of these family members that watched these parents experience that loss.

Melissa: Those photos are it. That's all they have to see and.

Melissa: To remember and to cherish the short lives of those babies and what a really vital role that they played during that time.

Melissa: So lots of good thoughts shared.

Melissa: I especially, of course, loved the advice at the end. Don't let the fear of emotion stop you from being part of somebody else's story. I'm going to leave it right there because that is beautiful advice and so grateful that Melanie could come on the show. I will leave links to the website. There are so many good things on their website. If you know someone who's a photographer.

Melissa: Or a digital touch artist that would.

Melissa: Be interested in volunteering with their organization, I'll leave that information there. There's also some links and information for family members that are wanting to help a loved one navigate that loss and ideas on how you can serve and help them. And there's also other ideas for families on how you can navigate those losses and grieve and go through that process. So their website is full of good information. I will leave a link there and also, of course, to their social media pages, and you can see some of the more stories and things of people that they have helped with their organization. And I just want to invite you, if you thought of someone as you were listening to this episode who would benefit from some of the conversations and things that we share today, please share this episode with them. Let them know that it might be something that might be helpful for them. Thank you so much for being here. I'll see you next time.