66. Rebroadcast: Camber Hess, Using Service to Cope with Grief and Her 'Infant Loss Stories' Project

This podcast episode is a sweet and tender interview with my husband’s cousin, Camber Hess. Camber lost one of her daughters as an infant several years ago, and has also experienced infertility and miscarriage. In this episode she talks about those experiences, and shares how receiving heartfelt service from others helped her cope with her grief. I really appreciate how she also gave genuine and simple ideas anyone can use to help them serve and be a support to those they might know currently walking through grief. 

Camber also relates how reaching out and giving service to others has been another way to help her navigate those losses in her own life. At the end of the episode she shares about her ‘Infant Loss Stories’ project and website, where she hopes to provide a safe space for women to share their own unique stories with infertility, miscarriage, and infant loss.

This really is a beautiful interview that originally aired October 3, 2023. I’m so grateful to Camber for being willing to come on the podcast and be so open with her own story and wanted to share it again for anyone that might benefit from hearing what she has to say.

Links mentioned in the episode:
Infant Loss Stories Website
Melissa's Story on Infant Loss Stories Website

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Transcript

Melissa: This podcast episode is a sweet and tender interview with my husband's cousin, Camber Hess. Camber lost one of her daughters as an infant several years ago and has also experienced infertility and miscarriage. In this episode, she talks about those experiences and shares how receiving heartfelt service from others helped her cope with her grief. I really appreciate how she also gave genuine and simple ideas anyone can use to help them serve and be a supportive to those they might know. Currently walking through grief, Camber also relates how reaching out and giving service to others has been another way to help her navigate those losses in her life. At the end of the episode, she shares about her infant lost stories project and website where she hopes to provide a safe space for women to share their own unique stories with infertility, miscarriage, and infant loss. This really is a beautiful interview that originally aired October 3, 2023. I'm so grateful to Camber for being willing to come on the podcast and be so open with her own story and wanted to share it again for anyone that might benefit from hearing what she has to say. Welcome to the Do Something more podcast, a service oriented show where we highlight the helpers who inspire us all to do something more. I'm your host, Melissa Draper. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to another episode of the podcast, and I was really looking forward to this one because I am going to be interviewing my husband's cousin, but I guess by marriage. Also my cousin, Camber Hess today, and we're going to be talking about using service to cope with grief or ways that we can serve others who are coping with grief. And then she's also going to let us know about this awesome project that she's been working on as well with infant loss stories. So I'm excited for this conversation and for all the things that we can learn. Amber, welcome to the show.

Camber: Thank you so much, Melissa.

Melissa: So I would love to have you just start off by introducing yourself.

Camber: Okay. Thank you. So I'm a mom of five kiddos, and we live in Arizona, and I'm a nurse practitioner, and I just work part time as that. And most of the time I'm at home with my kids. And our second daughter, Sarah passed away a few days after birth. And then I have four other kids that are still living. So Sarah is the one that I'll be talking about a little bit today.

Melissa: Yeah, Sarah kind of inspired a little bit, but also other experiences. Your infant loss stories project?

Camber: Yes. So if you want, I can go ahead and just kind of share a little bit about Sarah's story and then talk.

Melissa: Yeah, go ahead. That'd be great.

Camber: Okay. So we had a lot of trouble getting pregnant with my oldest daughter, and we did in vitro a bunch of times, and then we were able to get pregnant with my second daughter, Sarah, without any interventions or anything like that. And I remember just being, like, so happy and excited about that. And I had a really normal, healthy pregnancy. And then at the very end, around 35 weeks, I found out that there was a lot of extra fluid in with her. So we did some testing, and it looked like there might be a problem with her brain. And that was totally unexpected. And a few days later, I went into labor, because the extra fluid can sometimes cause early labor. So I ended up having a c section, and she was born. And when she was born and they did more testing, they kind of came to realize that her neurological problems were going to be a little more severe than we had initially thought. And after a few days in the hospital, and they did all the tests that they could to try to figure out what was going on and if it was going to be recoverable or not, they finally determined that she probably wasn't going to be able to improve, and she wouldn't have really any ability to lead a normal life. So we gathered our family together, and we, in our church, it's customary to give a blessing to a baby. So we did that, and we let all of our family members meet her. And then we took her off the ventilator, and my husband and I held her, and then she passed away after a little bit of that. And that was obviously a really heartbreaking experience. I remember crying a lot in the hospital. It's hard because you're also, like, hormonal after birth, so that makes it extra hard.

Melissa: Yeah.

Camber: But I also remember just this feeling, this feeling of peace that was there. And that was a time when I felt closer to God than probably any other time in my life. And so I look back on that, and I remember a lot of sadness, but I also remember kind of the sacred feeling that I have about the whole experience. And afterwards, our people in our congregation or ward were just so, so good about helping and reaching out and serving. And I often just felt in awe, like, I don't deserve this. We hadn't lived in that area for very long. I didn't know people super well, and people were just doing so much for us, and I just was so touched by that. And it really helped so much for us to have that outpouring of love and support. And so I did learn several things from that experience and just seeing how amazing other people were and how much they were willing to serve us.

Melissa: Yes. I would love to go into that because I think often those of us that watch others go through grief, it can feel a little helpless at times.

Camber: Yes.

Melissa: We second guess sometimes the thoughts and things that come to us of what we should do.

Camber: Yes. And I think you want to help so bad and you see the wrong thing. And so it is very tricky. And I. I still make mistakes. I've totally, like, said the wrong thing even after going through all this. So, you know, we're all still learning and I'm still learning.

Melissa: So, yeah, we have to give each other a little grace in that process. Yeah. But I would love to hear what were some of those things that you learned can be helpful if you are someone trying to give service or to reach out to someone who's going through a loss.

Camber: Sure. So I think one of the most important things to remember is that grief looks different for everybody. And so what helps one person might not help another person. And so just trying to approach it with some sensitivity and kind of being willing to ask what's helpful for you and what you need can be really good. Another thing that I really learned to is that your job as somebody that's serving somebody isn't to fix their grief. You can't take the grief away from them. It's really emotional process that they have to go through on their own. And so as you come in and you want to help them, you don't have to say things to make it feel better. But what does help is to just listen and to ask them how they're doing. Ask about the person that they might be grieving or ask about their experience, and they might not want to talk about it, and that's okay. But I think sometimes even just asking can mean a lot to somebody. And the best, if you want something to know, like what to say, saying I love you and I'm sorry for your loss, are always safe things to say, and that's always appreciated. And if it's appropriate for the person saying, I'm praying for you is also. Can also be a really good one to say. And I really did. A lot of people said to me, I'm very religious, and I really did feel the strength of those prayers. And that meant a lot to me that people would pray for me. And it might not be the case for everybody, but it was for me. That was a really huge one.

Melissa: Right.

Camber: Another thing that I learned is to try to avoid saying any phrase that starts with the words at least, because what that does is when you say, at least you have other kids, or at least it could have been worse, or at least you got to see them, or just whatever you might say that comes after those words, it tends to kind of invalidate what they're feeling, and it makes them feel like, well, I don't deserve to be sad because it could be worse. And I totally get why that's such a, like, well meaning thing to say, and I've definitely said that to people before. But sometimes what really is the most helpful is to just acknowledge, like, you're sad and it's okay to be sad, and I'm here for you, and I'll sit with you in your sadness. And it doesn't have to be, like, a fixing thing, like I said before.

Melissa: Yeah, I love that. That's great advice. And I think sometimes the way I've thought of it is sometimes saying those at least, or you fall into kind of those comparison things.

Camber: Yes.

Melissa: We always say all the time, don't compare in other areas of our life. So I think it's okay to say, we don't need to compare our grief or our challenges either. Right. That loss is loss. Poopy days or poopy days. You know, they just can be what they are, and it's okay to feel that and to just be a support to someone as they're going through that.

Camber: Yes. That's so well put. I completely agree with that. When you're comparing, I think it just always. You always come out losing when you compare. So trying to avoid that as much as you can.

Melissa: Yeah.

Camber: Another thing that I learned is that when people are grieving, it's really hard to make decisions. Sometimes it's hard to even get out of bed or to function. And so a lot of people, when someone is going through something really hard, will say, let me know if you need anything. Which is great. Like, that's, you know, that's super well meaning. But then it puts the onus back on me, or whoever it is, to think of what they need and then to ask for help, which is just so hard to do. And I remember one of the really helpful things that people in our church did was they said, we're going to bring you three meals, and we'd like to bring them on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Is that okay with you? And then all I had to do was say, yes, yes, we'll be home.

Melissa: So.

Camber: I just loved that. Because if they were like, would you like us to bring you meals, I would have said no. And so when they were just like, we'd like to bring you meals, we'd like to bring them on these days. Is that okay? Or you could say to somebody, I'd really like to bring you a meal. Can I come on Wednesday or Thursday? Which day is better? Or would it be more helpful if I brought you a meal, I cleaned your house and then I'm going to come on this day. Is that okay? The easier on them to accept that service, then that will be so much more effective service for them.

Melissa: And I love you still mentioned the other part of that, of respecting their boundaries or what might be helpful and to say, is that okay? Or what day is best, you know? But there's definitely a good balance to find of not making them decide all of it.

Camber: Yes. And just trying to be thoughtful. I read a really, really interesting story that one of my dear friends, Jenny, shared online. She'd also lost a baby, and she'd read a story about somebody that had lost their parent and was just really struggling, just barely functioning. And a friend was like, what's your address? And I listened for the doorbell at 08:00 tonight. And so they did. And at 08:00 they got this, like, grocery delivery. And it was just all these things that this thoughtful friend thought that they might need, like, easy to make meals and comfort foods and things like that. And so it wasn't like, do you want me to send you groceries? They just kind of were trying to be thoughtful and proactive and did that for them. Now, that might not be the right thing for everybody in every situation, but just kind of that idea of being proactive and trying to make it as easy on the person that's grieving as you can was really great.

Melissa: Yeah, that's a great story.

Camber: Another thing that I really, that I learned was that a lot of people, I think sometimes you think you have to do something big or hard to serve somebody that's. And a lot of my friends just use their own talents to serve our family, which I thought was really cool. So I had a friend that is a wonderful baker, and she made this beautiful cake for the luncheon that we had after the funeral. And I just remember looking at this, like, beautiful cake and just being so touched that she put that time into that and made something so delicious and nice, you know, for that luncheon. And I had another friend that's really good at sewing, and she came over just kind of unexpected one day, and she's like, I have just been wanting so bad to do something for your family. And I couldn't think of what to do, but I can sew. And so I decided to make a little fairy skirt and a wand for your older daughter. My daughter was like one and a half at the time, and so she gave it. And first of all, it was really thoughtful that she thought of my other child, who's kind of getting the shaft during all of this. And also that she just took something that she was good at and that she felt like she could give, and she did it. And it was so kind and thoughtful. So I really appreciated that. Another friend is really good at playing the piano, and so she came and played the piano at the funeral, and she did this really beautiful prelude music, and it just set this wonderful tone. And afterwards, she knows that I like to play the piano, and so she gave me the book that she'd used for that, and I still have that book, and I play for me. And it just always makes me smile to think of her just thoughtfulness, so.

Melissa: Oh, I love that. And we talk about that on the podcast often. That service, very often, is just doing the things that come naturally to you, your own talents to serve and reach out to someone.

Camber: Yes. And I think that that sometimes lowers the barrier. You know, sometimes it feels like it has to be hard, but it doesn't have to be.

Melissa: Right?

Camber: Yeah. I'm just going to quickly list off a couple other things that people did that I thought were particularly thoughtful and helpful. Yeah, that would be great just for somebody else. One of my friends set up a GoFundme and helped to cover our hospital expenses. And so that was super helpful. We were in a, like, our money was really tight at the time for us because I was finishing school and my husband had just started a new job, and so that was really helpful. And so sometimes, honestly, if somebody's having a funeral, giving them money can be a really helpful gift. It feels cold, but often that financial strain is there.

Melissa: Right?

Camber: And I also had some family members that traveled pretty far. My cousin Brad came all the way up from Vegas, and another cousin John and his wife Rachel drove all the way up from Arizona. This was in Utah at the time. It's like a twelve hour drive. And Brad had to be back for work, and they, but they showed up. They just wanted to be there to show love and support, and that meant so much to me. And Melissa, I remember that you and Charles came and just love. Like, you guys were so great and that, that meant a lot. Judy, your mother in law, she gave me this sweetest picture of, like, jesus holding a baby. And I really liked that because I liked the idea of, like, of her going back to a safe place. And so that was really touching to me. Again, that might not be appropriate for everybody, you know, if they're not religious, but that was really touching for me. And I have another aunt that's really good at sewing, and she was like, I happen to have this gorgeous embroidered, preemie size dress. Would you like to use it for a burial dress? And we had a blessing dress for her, and we didn't. I didn't really want to bury her in it because I wanted to keep that dress so I could have it, you know? Right. Just have something from her. And so that was so thoughtful. It was just, like, such an answer to prayer. We used that gorgeous dress that she made to bury her in, and then I was able to keep her blessing dress. And then I also felt like she was in something really beautiful. And my mother in law also, she stayed up all night and made a little quilt for her to be buried in. And that meant so much. We had, there was a volunteer photographer. There's an organization called now I lay me down to sleep. And so volunteer photographer came out and took pictures when we took the ventilator out so we could have beautiful professional pictures of her. And then I had a next door neighbor that gave me a necklace with her name on it. And I really liked that because that was personal, and it had her name on it, and it was, like, something that I could wear. And so I really liked that as well. I could go on and on and on. So. But I just, like, I loved the way that people just thought really great things to serve and did such a good job of showing love to us. And like I said, even just people that sent texts or said, I love you, or I'm praying to you, like, that really, really didn't mean a lot to us.

Melissa: So I love that. I love all of those examples that you shared, and I think each of them just show how individual and unique reaching out to someone can be. It does not have to be in a box. It does not have to be a certain way. When we have a good thought or impression that comes, we can act on it and know that it can make a difference and be help to someone.

Camber: I agree. Yes. And like you said, like, it's so diverse the way that people served us, and they all really did mean so much, right?

Melissa: Yeah. Well, those are some great examples that I think could help anyone. That's wanting to serve and reach out to someone they care about who's going through a loss or coping with grief. But I also want to go into, because you have now used service, I know, to honor Sarah's life as well, and have talked about using that yourself as you continue to cope and go through that process. So I would love to hear a little bit more about that.

Camber: Sure. And again, I want to just emphasize for anybody that's listening that the way that people grieve is very individual. And so the things that I'm about to share were really helpful for me. And it's totally okay if that's not what somebody else needs as they're coping with their grief. So I just don't want anybody to feel guilty or feel like they have to do things my way because everybody, you know, is different. And so I just want to put that kind of caveat out there. But it was really big for me. And when, as I was trying to cope with her loss and. And find hope and healing and stuff, it really helped me to try to take her loss and turn it into something positive. And partly because I feel like people have been so good to us, I just really wanted to pay it forward in some small way. So one thing that we do at Christmas time is we have a little stocking with her name on it and we, we try to think of little service projects to do. And some years we do more than others, just depending on how things are going at Christmas. But sometimes we'll do like the twelve days of Christmas, or we'll donate to a giving machine, or we'll try to like, do like sub for Santa and donate to a family. Need just anything that we can think of to do service at Christmas time, which is already such a special time. We'll write that down on a little note and put that in her stocking. And that's kind of like our gift to her at Christmas. And then on her, we try to always. I really wanted her birthdays to be positive. And I know that doesn't work for everybody, but for us, we try to do like a fun family activity that day. And then we also try to do a service project for her birthday. And that's. We've done all kinds of different things. Sometimes we collect donations for the NICU, sometimes it's just money. Sometimes we'll collect supplies. Thank you, needs. Other times we have. One of my favorite things that I did was doing a bake sale because I loved bake. So that really, that was something that came naturally to me and that I enjoyed as we would do a bake sale and then donate the proceeds of the bake sale either to a family in need or to an organization that helps with families of infant loss. During COVID we couldn't really do anything social, and so we just collected money for the food bank, and we donated that to the food bank. So it's looked like a lot of different things, but it's really helped me to feel positive about her and about her birthday when I'm using that anniversary as a time to give back and to do good. And that just makes me remember her with so much more fondness and also to feel like her life has meaning and continues to have meaning for our family.

Melissa: Yeah. And I know some of the experiences or pictures I've seen you share, it's almost felt like a celebration even, too, as you've had some of these opportunities.

Camber: Yeah. And we do. It does make it feel more positive. Another thing that I have learned is that when you go something through something hard, it uniquely prepares you to serve other people in ways that you could not serve them before. And this is something that I want anybody listening that is going through something hard to kind of be thinking about. When Sarah died, our bishop, which is the leader of our congregation and our church, got called the day after she. So we switched out our bishops the day after she died. And the bishop that got called in had had a daughter that was stillborn seven or eight years ago. And so one of the first things that that poor man did as a bishop was to speak at our daughter's funeral. And he did such a beautiful job. And I just felt like. I felt so seen by God that he put this person in our path that was so uniquely prepared to serve us. And I just. I have so much love for him and his wife and just the amazing people they are, and I'm so grateful for that. And I had another friend that we'd known out in grad school, and she had also lost a baby. And she was so great about reaching out and checking on me, and I felt like I could be honest with her, and because she understood what it was like, and so she was able to serve me in ways that other people couldn't because she there. And then it just felt like after Sarah died, I kept bumping into people that had lost babies or friends would reach out to me that lost babies afterwards. And it was so much easier to support them and grieve with them because I'd been there and I was able to say things to them that no one else could say if that makes sense. Right. Whatever it is that you go through, like, if you have cancer, you can help people with cancer so much more effectively than if you hadn't, you know, what your experiences that you go through empower you to help other people in really beautiful ways that they couldn't before. And so that is one way that you can look at your trials or difficulties in a positive way, because it does increase that capacity to serve.

Melissa: Yeah, that is a great point. And I identify with that so much. I haven't gone through quite the loss that you have, but I've had my own experiences, especially sometimes with mental health. And after I've gone through those experiences, it's been the same as you. I've had those opportunities to sit down with someone and to just listen and to understand exactly where they're coming from and to try and give that same love and support that I was seeking and needed. And you come away from those feeling grateful for the opportunity to be able to lift somebody else, and like you said, knowing that you wouldn't have gotten that or been able to do it in quite that way without your own challenges that you've gone through.

Camber: Yes. And I'm so glad you've had that experience, too, because it can just be such a healing and beautiful thing to. To be able to do that for somebody.

Melissa: Right? Yeah. Well, that's great. Were there any other thoughts that you wanted to share on that, on how serving others helped lift your own burden?

Camber: One other quick thought. Is that another thing that I did? Which, looking back, I mean, it probably sounds weird, but I sat down and I wrote so many thank you notes. I know you did an episode on thanking people, and so great. And I think that I seriously, I think, like our doctors, I wrote, I was, like, writing notes to everybody I could think of. But what it did was it helped me to see the good things that had happened in the midst of a tragedy. And having that sense of gratitude helped me to focus on the good instead of dwelling on the bad, when sometimes it can just feel like, how could life even go on when you're going through this tragedy? And instead, what I saw was all the ways that I had been seen and loved and helped, and I saw so much beauty. And so that exercise of just thanking people was really helpful for me and helped me to heal and to see good in it.

Melissa: I love that. And one of the things I mentioned on that episode that I also love about thank yous is they are relatively easy to do. And so if you are going through a period of time like you would be after going through loss. Thank yous are way that you can engage in service.

Camber: Yes.

Melissa: Don't take as much physically or emotionally or mentally, but can still make a huge difference for the person we're thinking. And then again, like you said, for us as well, to realize the good things.

Camber: So, yes, that's so well put.

Melissa: Well, I would also now love to go into, because one of the things that you've done, again, as you've wanted to look outward, to serve and to help others from this experience, is you've organized this infant loss stories project and this website. So I would love you to just share a little bit about that and that project.

Camber: Okay. Thank you so much. So a couple summers ago, back in 2020, I had a couple of miscarriages back to back. And, I mean, 2020 was a hard year for everybody. So, yes, everybody was feeling very isolated. And so it was hard to go through that at the time. But as I was going through that, I thought, man, I'm really bad at this reproducing stuff. You know, I bless Sarah. We had infertility for a number of years before we had me all this, and then I had several miscarriages. And I thought about all the times that I had talked to other women about their experiences and how much that had helped me and strengthened me through the, through my losses and infertility and things like that. And I just had, like, probably prompting to start collecting stories about the things that I had been through. So infertility and pregnancy loss and infant loss. And so I started just kind of reaching out to people and asking them to share their stories. And then recently I was able to get those put up on a website. The website is infantloststories.com. and I'm still adding to it, and I hope to keep adding to it. And it has been an incredibly beautiful project to be part of and to be entrusted with the stories of these strong and amazing women that have been through so much and have so much wisdom to share and that are so willing to be vulnerable and share what they've been through. And I remember as I was going through one of my miscarriages, thinking back on the women that had been through that, and honestly, like, it gave me so much strength to just know that other people had been there and had gotten through it. And then I could get through it. And thinking about their insights and their wisdom gave me so much strength. Sometimes there are things that we don't talk about, especially miscarriage and infertility are often trials that we don't realize somebody's going through, and people often feel like they can't talk about it. And I wanted to have a place where people that are going through that and feel really lonely or isolated could be able to see that other people have been there and know that they're not alone.

Melissa: Yeah. And I think I love that idea, too, that because it can be vulnerable to share some of those stories, but the idea of sharing those is a service in and of itself. It can reach out and help someone else who identifies with what you've gone through.

Camber: Yes. And it is, you know, sometimes we feel like it can be a little bit hard to be vulnerable like that and to share it, but it really is a service to others. When they can draw on your strength and your experiences and have that community.

Melissa: It's inspiring to collect those and put them together. I know you invited me to write some of my stories, and I realized, like you said, it is not something I talk about very often, and I am a natural expresser. Like, I usually don't have a problem sharing my feelings or thoughts on something, but it was quite the exercise for me to sit down and to write that. I think when I realized, I was like, wow, these are stories that need to be shared, and we need to not feel as alone in these experiences as women.

Camber: Yes. And anybody that wants to go find Melissa's story on the website, it's beautiful. She did such a great job. So thank you so much for sharing that.

Melissa: You're kind. And what else have you learned as you've collected these stories and had, I'm sure I'm not the only one that it was healing just to write the story, to share. So what are, what are some of those experiences and things that you've heard as you've worked through this project?

Camber: Yeah, I wrote down a couple of specific ones that I thought were really that kind of stood out to me. And I feel like every story is unique and I just value them all so much. So I don't want anyone that might have a story posted that if I don't mention it, please don't feel offended because I love them all so much. But, you know, with limited time, we'll.

Melissa: Put a link to the site so anyone can go read all of them.

Camber: And I also want to say, you know, not everybody's ready or in a space to either read stories or share their stories. And again, like I keep saying, you know, everybody's different, and it's okay if that's not helpful. For you, but it is helpful for some people, and so I'm hoping that this resource is helpful. One friend that goes by pseudonym, I, we'll call her Alice. She had a couple of miscarriages and a number of years of infertility, and it was really, really just so painful for her emotionally. At the end of her story, she says something that I have thought about again and again and again. And she says, empathy is the hardest thing to earn and the easiest thing to give away. And I think that that is so wise, and it kind of goes back to what we've been talking about when you go through really, really difficult experiences. But one of the precious gifts that you can gain through trials is the gift of empathy, and you kind of get new eyes to see other people and to recognize what they're going through when you've been through something similar. And so I just love that Alice was willing to share that and that she put that into such a nice phrase. The hardest thing to earn and the easiest thing to give away.

Melissa: It's just, yeah, that's very poetic and profound.

Camber: I. Yes, I had another friend, Rachel. And Rachel's story is so interesting because she had, she has five kids, and they're all pretty close in age, and she had one miscarriage kind of in the middle. And she said she was like, I kind of feel embarrassed telling my story because it doesn't feel like she said it didn't really feel like she went through anything all that hard compared to other people, and that other people looking at her would invalidate what she went through because they're like, well, you look at all these kids that you have, and you hadn't had trouble, like, getting pregnant, and so she felt a little bit embarrassed. But, you know, I guess, like, competing, you know, with the other stories. But that's, I think, partly why I love her story so much, because she said, I felt like I should not feel sad, but I did feel sad. I felt very sad and lonely in my sadness. And I just, I, it goes back to what we're seeing about not comparing your trials. I just love that Rachel put it that way, that she felt sad, and it needs to be okay for her to feel sad. She had every right to feel sad that she had a miscarriage, and it was hard for her, and so there's no need to invalidate that. Like, it's totally valid that she would feel sad. Like, that's a sad thing. And so it doesn't matter that she has other kids. Like, it's still sad. And so I just think that, like, giving people the permission to grieve is really helpful and really healing. He said, what did I learn? She said, I learned it is okay to be sad and thinking you don't deserve to be sad because your experience is not as painful or traumatic as someone else's, is not helpful.

Melissa: Right.

Camber: Difficult experiences with sympathetic friends is healing. So, Rachel, like, I just thank you for sharing that. That was. I just think that that's such a wise thing that she shared there.

Melissa: Yeah. So many good things you can learn from reading a the stories and experiences of others.

Camber: Yeah.

Melissa: Well, I just love. I guess if there's one other final question I'd want to ask is I have just always been impressed. Camber, maybe you don't feel like this on the inside, but with your resilience through these experiences that you've had and your desire to want to help others in the process. So I guess that's also what I want to ask, is, do you have any advice or encouragement to someone else that's been through a hard experience and they've had thoughts like you did about using that experience to reach out and serve others? Do you have any advice that you would give them on how to follow through with that or to act on some of those thoughts they might have had?

Camber: Oh, that's a really good question. I think that you can always start with things that feel natural to you, like we were talking about, and even just be starting to watch for people that are going through something similar. And just being willing to be a listening ear to them can be such a huge way to serve and to help other people. Some people turn their experiences into something big, but it doesn't have to be something big. Sometimes it's just that listening earth or being able to recognize, hey, like, I heard you had a miscarriage, and I'm here for you can be really big, because not everybody has somebody to say that to them.

Melissa: Right.

Camber: For me, I don't really feel like that strong of a person. But like I said, I am very religious, and so I always relied on God to help me through my difficult times. And I remember a friend that was going through a miscarriage saying, I could never go through what you went through. You know, she's talking about Sarah. And I said, I couldn't either. You're not that strong. But I felt like, for me, in my experience, like, I felt like God made me strong and I really relied on the savior during that time. And I know that that might not be everybody's, everybody's faith or anything like that. But for me, that was really huge for me, and I really felt like God helped me, kind of put me in the position to help other people and help put people in my path, that I could serve them after I went through that. And so that was really big for me and. And really helped bring so much beauty out of a hard time.

Melissa: Yeah, I think that's great to share those experiences that you've had with that and knowing that God was aware of you as you went through that. Well, we've had a great conversation here. So many good things that I know are applicable to many people in various circumstances. So I want to thank you for being willing to just share some of your experiences and the things that you've learned and also about this infant loss project. I'll definitely be putting a link to that on the show notes, but as we close up, are there any final thoughts or advice or things you'd like to share?

Camber: No, I don't think so. I think just this idea that whatever you've been through, you can take that and turn it for good. And I think that that's a great way to try to heal through a difficult time. So I just hope that anyone that might be struggling with something, you know, can have those experiences down the road where they can turn it into something good and use it to help others.

Melissa: I think that's a great note to end on. So thank you so much, Camber, for being willing to come on the show today.

Camber: Thank you so much, Melissa. This is great.

Melissa: That was my interview with Camber Hess, and I just thought she had so many good and profound things to share. As I went through relistening and editing that interview for this podcast, I was grabbing so many quotes and one liners and things that I thought, oh, that's so good. So lots of good things that I hope those of you listening could benefit from for you and your own experiences. And there were a couple of things, especially I took away from that interview that, first of all, she shared repeatedly that grief looks different for everybody, and it's okay for how we might be walking through grief. It's not going to look the same for everyone. So when it comes to service or to what's helpful, there's not a one fits all answer as she shared, even with her infant loss stories project. There might even be people that aren't in a space to share or even read those stories, and that's okay. But many times, some of those small things are helpful for others. And so if we feel pushed and inspired to do it, then we should follow through on that because it can be so helpful. But it's okay to know that it's going to look different for everyone. The ways that working through and coping with grief or serving and helping others through grief is a unique experience. So I loved that reminder from her repeatedly in the interview. And then I also loved that overriding theme that hard experiences can empower us to help others. They can be what gives us the knowledge and the empathy to be able to reach out to someone and to serve them and to help them. And those experiences can be very healing for anyone that's gone through a hard time or trial, as she said. But they can also be a blessing for others as they go through a similar experience. So I loved that reminder too, that we can feel empowered to help others with our experiences. And I just loved that culmination of all of that within her website that she's bringing and connecting women together, giving them the opportunity to serve others and experience healing by sharing their stories and then also offering that to others that might need to read those stories to experience the same. So such a great project. I will put a link to her website in the show notes. I will also link to my story since I mentioned that, and she mentioned that if anyone's interested in reading that as well. So if you know someone that could benefit from the things that were discussed on the episode here today, please share this podcast episode with them. Let them know. Hey, I think this might be a podcast that you would like to listen to. Share it with them and let them know. And of course, I hope this week you find a way to do something more to lift, help, inspire, or make a difference.